Overtraining

[Cookie]

Basedowic (sympathetic) overtraining

Addisonic (parasympathetic) overtraining

[samurai69]

go on then expand on things then cookie

what Al says is correct to a degree (in my opinion) i hit new weights pretty regularly

also what cooke says about "athletes who have already done years of basic ground work to fine tune their systems to handle such huge workloads"

but i do think many use it as an excuse not to push that little bit harder, Al says leave some in the tank, yeh, but many dont know what they have and never give it enough to find out


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[Al]

go on then expand on things then cookie

what Al says is correct to a degree (in my opinion) i hit new weights pretty regularly

also what cooke says about "athletes who have already done years of basic ground work to fine tune their systems to handle such huge workloads"

but i do think many use it as an excuse not to push that little bit harder, Al says leave some in the tank, yeh, but many dont know what they have and never give it enough to find out


.

Absolutely agree. It takes experience and really going balls to the wall to find out what you're capable of and what "a rep or two in the tank" really means.

[Cookie]

Prefer the term "under recovered" to "over trained".

I don't think that you can train too hard. I do think that you can train too often. "Too often" is not allowing your body to recover from its previous exertions.

Proof of a training program (the work AND the rest), for whatever the sport is progress. If progress is being made: great. If not then look at the work put in and the recovery in between. One or both need tweaked.

But there is progress & "progress" wouldn`t you agree?

Now I do believe you can train too hard & this can lead to issues with recovery so you do make some progress but not the amount of progress that "could" have been made.

go on then expand on things then cookie

Which bit?

what Al says is correct to a degree (in my opinion) i hit new weights pretty regularly

also what cooke says about "athletes who have already done years of basic ground work to fine tune their systems to handle such huge workloads"

but i do think many use it as an excuse not to push that little bit harder, Al says leave some in the tank, yeh, but many dont know what they have and never give it enough to find out

I think it is banded about (mostly by the magazines et al) too much & a lot of confusion has arisen over the years as to what the true signs are of being "over trained/under recovered". At times though my feelings are that a lot that do suffer with such symptoms are of the kind that push far too hard in the gym because of the use of supplements both natural & chemical which over ride all the inbuilt systems that give feedback to hold back or stop (leave one in the tank) the workout or set. Then you have these very same individuals who (usually) possess very little cardiovascular, CNS/PNS conditioning to handle the work loads they are throwing at the body. No use of an active recovery program to help gently guide the body to faster recovery just the use of such aids to help them reach a state of mind to get through the next session.

If you took 2 guys & let one go on a typical internet forum program (body-building) then another who first spent 2-3 months getting a foundation built around all his recovery systems. We all know that the "body-builder" would be leaps & bounds out in front possibly for the first 6 months whilst our other guy was laying down solid foundations & making progress muscular wise much slower. Yet in the long run he would dwarf the body-builder in overall gians & continue to do so unless the body-builder resulted to his/their usual practise of chemical assistance.

So much of what makes a "complete" training program is missed out on the internet & magazines because the basics just do not sell. All that is then banded about is diet & the gym work with very little being covered on correct warm-ups, mobility, agility, flexibility, cardiovascular conditioning & the rest.

[Cookie]

Basedowic (sympathetic) overtraining

http://www.springerlink.com/content/q17m731652421764/

Addisonic (parasympathetic) overtraining

http://redalyc.uaemex.mx/pdf/930/93001204.pdf

[Scott]

But there is progress & "progress"

Do you think you make more 'gains' consistently undertraining or consistently overtraining?


** Ideally of course you want to be training 'correctly' but y'know what I mean.

[Cookie]

But there is progress & "progress"

Do you think you make more 'gains' consistently undertraining or consistently overtraining?


** Ideally of course you want to be training 'correctly' but y'know what I mean.

As Al & S69 pointed out more "consistent" gains through leaving something in reserve each workout but there is a protocol called "over reaching" which is used to push beyond your boundaries by intentionally pushing yourself into an "over trained" state to get a rebound effect when you go into recovery mode.

[samurai69]

my leg training and the reason i am able to push heavy weights 3 times per week is that i have built it up gradually over the last 7 months which gives my tendons and ligaments a chance to catch up, also i dont spend much time on isolation exercises except maybe to pre exhaust the legs first, and if you look also at the leg workout its pyramided up so every previous set is a warm up to the main set and then after the main set one or two either partials or heavy holds to get the legs used to that weight or heavier next time....................i also listen to my body, if it wants a daty off or two then it gets it if it wants to train 3 days on the trott thats possible too

most newbies to training dont know how to train intensely and shouldnt, their bodies need to adapt not only with the muscles, but also tendons, ligaments, blood flow, nerve functon etc................the reason that the basic 3x8 full body routine works so well for them


.

[tomato]

overtraining happens over momths of high intensity, high volume work, and takes a while to recover from

anybody who says they are overtrained from one week, is talking rubbish they will recover within a week of rest.

newbies will respond to any type of training and find gains quite quickly. this will slow down as they become 'better' conditioned. so if their training is crap to start with they will still find gains, but they will probably think 'this training has worked once so will work forever' which i think we all we know it doesnt. there may be some cases where

elite athletes and highly conditioned individuals, will find gains slower as they reach the peak of their potential. as they need to train to a high level to prevent detraining overtraining becomes a greater risk, it is more important that they have carefully planned programmes to optimise gains and minimise fatigue. which is where periodised training, planned over reaching,supercompensation, gradual progressions and deloads come in

i believe overtraining exists, although it is possible that the term has been misused and bastardised to mean a lot of things.

[tomato]

in fact im feeling pretty overtrained myself right about now

[Cookie]

overtraining happens over momths of high intensity, high volume work, and takes a while to recover from

anybody who says they are overtrained from one week, is talking rubbish they will recover within a week of rest.

newbies will respond to any type of training and find gains quite quickly. this will slow down as they become 'better' conditioned. so if their training is crap to start with they will still find gains, but they will probably think 'this training has worked once so will work forever' which i think we all we know it doesnt. there may be some cases where

elite athletes and highly conditioned individuals, will find gains slower as they reach the peak of their potential. as they need to train to a high level to prevent detraining overtraining becomes a greater risk, it is more important that they have carefully planned programmes to optimise gains and minimise fatigue. which is where periodised training, planned over reaching,supercompensation, gradual progressions and deloads come in

i believe overtraining exists, although it is possible that the term has been misused and bastardised to mean a lot of things.

Nice post

in fact im feeling pretty overtrained myself right about now

Would you mind posting up an entire weeks worth of activities bot inside & outside of the gym including any warm-ups, cool downs that you do so I can compare your overall work load against my own?

Sam69 could you also do the same please?

That way we have three different individuals routines/lifestyles & we can see what other factors may be involved that influence our gains etc.

[samurai69]

three gym sessions

always heavy, working back, legs, biceps in every workout and usually shoulders and triceps and abs, but they change a bit

then 1 or 2 workouts with client

then depending 3 to 5 workouts where i may have to demonstarte techniques

thats it at the moment


when we start working on the gym, the workouts may change.............like if i am fitting floor or carpet or vinyl i wont do manu workouts as the floor lasying kills my knees and back.....but that would only be whilst things are getting sorted

monday training.....21st june


warmed up with stiff legged deadlift...bar only

then 60kg deadlift for 10 reps

then singlees of 110kg, 150kg, 190kg, 210kg

then on to rack pull holds 210kg, 250kg, 290kg, then tried 330kg ...couldnt manage without straps so added the straps and made it at 330kg

dropped the weight back to 70kg and did some high pull 1/2 cleans 5 singles

then on to leg press all weights where 5 rep sets 130kg, 210kg, 290kg, 340kg, 390kg, 440kg (440kg new pb for 5 good reps)

hammer curls 6 reps each set 34kg, 36kg, 38kg then 1 set of 22kg for 8 reps

tricep press downs 30kg, 40kg, 50kg for 15 reps, 10 reps and 8 reps

seated leg curls for 8 rep sets 30kg, 60kg, 70kg, 80kg

finished with ab curls on machine 10 rep sets 30kg, 40kg, 50kg, 60kg, 70kg, 80kg