Pre workout supplements

[Cookie]

usually 1.5 scoops of the Jack3d mixed with about 6g of bcaa's does the job. Never needed more than 2 scoops. A scoop probably equates to a generous tablespoon. I usually mix this up the night before my morning workouts and put it by the bedside (not a morning person). Generally this is twice a week and I do not use it more than 3 times a week to avoid developing a tolerance.

The problem I had with the fat burner (oxyelite) was I was simply too sensitive to it. Even half dosage was more than enough for me. It certainly worked, I melted the fat off, but it really burnt me out, quite literally. Had I approached it with a little more caution (4 days on, 2 off, half to a quarter the recommended dose) perhaps that would have worked better.
Where I got into trouble was immediately following it up with Recreate which is a thermogenic with very little stimulant effect to get through some wrestling dates. This works on thyroid and while I liked this product alot, the rebound effect of the two was/is brutal. I just recently started supplementing with a high quality iodine supplement (kelp), and increased my protein intake which seems to be getting me back to normal when combined with a reduced workload.
I would not, not recommend (hey a double negative in the same sentence ) the supplement to those who use stimulants or have experience with them as many people I know have no problems or symptoms of rebound effect with either. I do tell them it is powerful stuff and to exercise caution.

Amazing how easy it is to over step the mark with these types of supplements & not know you have done right away. It`ll no longer be a case of guys going to the docs because they`ve over done the roids etc but because they`ve overdone the natural fat burners/stims.

How times are a changing.

What`s your dose protocol for the phosphatidyl serine?

[Melas Zomos]

Amazing how easy it is to over step the mark with these types of supplements & not know you have done right away. It`ll no longer be a case of guys going to the docs because they`ve over done the roids etc but because they`ve overdone the natural fat burners/stims.
How times are a changing.

No doubt.
Makes you think at times, some of those black market items really are/were not all that bad in comparison.
I really do not like where they are going with supplements and the thyroid especially. Dangerous grounds imo.

What`s your dose protocol for the phosphatidyl serine?

Due to the economics of the supplement I stay on the light side: 100mg 30min before working out. They discontinued the one I was using which was 500mg in favor of this blend of phosphatidyl serine and dha. Not quite as good, but the best I could find quality/price wise.

I also use it as an aid for writing. Seems to put my brain in gear a bit. Again 100mg before writing. I am actually going to email you shortly on this subject and see if you want to help me. Your mind is as screwed up as mine, so I think you could offer some assistance , and I mean that in a good way.

[Cookie]

Due to the economics of the supplement I stay on the light side: 100mg 30min before working out. They discontinued the one I was using which was 500mg in favor of this blend of phosphatidyl serine and dha. Not quite as good, but the best I could find quality/price wise.

Yes does look expensive for what you get volume wise. Possibly out of my price range.

Used a couple of samples of Jack3d...First 2-3 doses felt good then a few days off. The rest continued to use at same dose but didn`t seem to work as well but left me with one humongous comedown, not good...And it screwed with my sleep even after 8-10 hours from initial dose.

One to bypass for me I think. Too many negatives & not enough positives. Can`t imagine doing 2-3 scoops like some people do

I also use it as an aid for writing. Seems to put my brain in gear a bit. Again 100mg before writing. I am actually going to email you shortly on this subject and see if you want to help me. Your mind is as screwed up as mine, so I think you could offer some assistance , and I mean that in a good way.

I`ll watch for the email.

[Melas Zomos]

Yes does look expensive for what you get volume wise. Possibly out of my price range.

It is expensive because it the one supplement I really like, and works as advertised. If your using it for focus then one pill is sufficient and cost effective. If you are using it more for cortisol suppression then it is far to expensive.

Can`t imagine doing 2-3 scoops like some people do

A lot of people stack it with other stimulants like oxyelite You are always going to have "speed freaks" I suppose. The only difference now is you do not need to find that guy with the gym bag full of black beauties in the gym, you can just go to the local health market. I like to feel alert and energetic, but if I cross the line and my heart feels like it is leaping out of its skin that is worse than being tired.

I`ll watch for the email.

Probably next week sometime, I think it is right up your alley

[Cookie]

It is expensive because it the one supplement I really like, and works as advertised. If your using it for focus then one pill is sufficient and cost effective. If you are using it more for cortisol suppression then it is far to expensive.

One for me to research nevertheless.

A lot of people stack it with other stimulants like oxyelite You are always going to have "speed freaks" I suppose. The only difference now is you do not need to find that guy with the gym bag full of black beauties in the gym, you can just go to the local health market. I like to feel alert and energetic, but if I cross the line and my heart feels like it is leaping out of its skin that is worse than being tired.

Again coming full circle to some points I have raised on a number of occasions with these new breed of supplements & how far the manufacturers seem to want to push the boat out in mimicking pharmaceuticals.

For me & what I seem to see on other forums is that they are becoming "gateways" to the eventual use of chemicals, simply because people soon tolerate them & need to look for that next big boost.

A very grey area. More so with the fact that these new supplements do not have years of detailed research behind them unlike pharmaceuticals do & who knows what sort of interactions can/could occur down the line or simply because an individual has inadvertently taken it in conjunction with something that they are not supposed to.

Probably next week sometime, I think it is right up your alley

Okay

[Melas Zomos]

Used a couple of samples of Jack3d...First 2-3 doses felt good then a few days off. The rest continued to use at same dose but didn`t seem to work as well but left me with one humongous comedown, not good...And it screwed with my sleep even after 8-10 hours from initial dose.

One to bypass for me I think. Too many negatives & not enough positives. Can`t imagine doing 2-3 scoops like some people do

What have you found that is better, along the same lines?

[Cookie]

Used a couple of samples of Jack3d...First 2-3 doses felt good then a few days off. The rest continued to use at same dose but didn`t seem to work as well but left me with one humongous comedown, not good...And it screwed with my sleep even after 8-10 hours from initial dose.

One to bypass for me I think. Too many negatives & not enough positives. Can`t imagine doing 2-3 scoops like some people do

What have you found that is better, along the same lines?

Ultimate orange

Mostly now I go with a good quality cup of coffee with some cinnamon & a spoonful or two of honey if I think energy levels are lacking. Honey eaten off the spoon not in the coffee

Supplements wise its hard to say because a lot of them I found focused far too much on "the pump" rather than the other qualities of additional focus & energy production. Applied Nutriceuticals had a couple of decent products out that I liked yet on the other hand 5-10 grams of bog standard bcaa`s &/or a banana have worked just as well,if not better, & are much cheaper.

You`ve given me something to think about here

[Melas Zomos]

Ultimate orange

Helped a friend move the other month and up on top of his cabinets was a can, alongside some Tigermilk

[Cookie]

Helped a friend move the other month and up on top of his cabinets was a can, alongside some Tigermilk

Was that the original U.O. or the watered down, weak as tap water new model they came up with?

I have found is if too high a dose of caffeine is taken then I crash badly before even getting into a training session. Its as if the adrenaline dump was too much & the body has just given up the ghost Another reason why I don`t like companies posting the ingredients under that ever elusive moniker of "propriety blends" because you never know exactly what each serving gives with regards to individual items.

[Melas Zomos]

Was that the original U.O. or the watered down, weak as tap water new model they came up with?

Oh no, the good stuff. He had a whole treasure chest up there. It looked like he would put extras and half filled bottles up there and just plain forgot about them. It was all good stuff, pharma dymetadrine (when it was legal), spiroment if you remember that one, and one of my all time fav's some extremely nasty brewers yeast I can go on and on, must have been a good sixty-seventy different items over a 15-20yr period

I have found is if too high a dose of caffeine is taken then I crash badly before even getting into a training session. Its as if the adrenaline dump was too much & the body has just given up the ghost

I do not necessarily crash, but the adrenaline dump does cause other issues.

Another reason why I don`t like companies posting the ingredients under that ever elusive moniker of "propriety blends" because you never know exactly what each serving gives with regards to individual items.

Yes, exactly.

[Cookie]

Posted in here & the theatron because it covers 2 points of discussion.

[Melas Zomos]

Dude, that video is just plain freaky. I don't think I can ever get used to that night vision filming. I feel like I am watching Syfy Saturday night

Your points on Jackd are good. If I use it consecutively then the effects are extremely diminished. If I try using it for multiple sessions, morning then late afternoon, the effects upon the second workout are diminished considerably. However, by keeping it to 2 or 3 times a week, non consecutive doses it seems to work well. Although sometimes it does take a little cns stimulation to get it to fully kick in.

Ultramarathon, my feet hurt just typing it. Not crazy about marathon training. Far too hard to get the necessary calories in to maintain what little I have worked so hard for. But then it is fun trying. Also have heard some negative things as related to testosterone levels, which may or may not be a bad thing depending on how you look at it. I can see training for such an event, and then immediately jumping back into bodybuilding/strength training and just seeing the body explode with new growth given the right program and diet. I would also imagine your test levels would shoot through the roof, too having been suppressed. Have not researched it enough to know for sure, going on hearsay. Did you feel any difference in test levels/libido when training for the 10k or was the training too brief to affect?